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23 January 2009 @ 02:04 pm
LOLing @ Twilight  
Okay after reading some hysterically scathing reviews about Twilight online, I am soooooo friggin happy I never got into that series or watched the movie. It sounds like it was even more ridiculous than I thought. LOL!
Reason # 11 why 15 year old girls should not be allowed to publish books about vampires.
Lyn: *smirk*1ucifer on January 23rd, 2009 07:18 pm (UTC)
-brow raise- If they let Eragon get published (which actually was written by a 15 year old boy, and you can tell), why not a funny series about vampires?

To each their own. If someone finds fun in a series, who is anyone else to judge how 'bad' it is?
Princess Crystal: Pandorachilddoll on January 23rd, 2009 07:32 pm (UTC)
Eh, didn't bother to read Eragon or see the movie either.
Honestly, I simply don't feel that 15 year olds have the maturity, life experience nor educational level to create decent works of literature. I may be wrong, but from what I have seen it reads like a high school girls diary. Not really my taste at all. I'm not judging YOUR tastes or anyone else's. I don't believe I said that at all. What I did say was that -I- am glad that -I- didn't read the series or watch the movie because -I- know my own tastes, and I would not have liked it one bit.
Lyn: Cosplay / Beliel1ucifer on January 23rd, 2009 07:39 pm (UTC)
Not all books are literature though. Some are just silly fun (same with tv, films, etc). Also, I don't believe the author was 15 when she wrote all the books (as the forth is way too non-teenager-esq to have been written by anyone younger than 18).

I didn't say you were judging my viewpoint, but just responding to the fact you're calling the series ridiculous without reading it.

Perosnally, I'd never recommend it to you because I know your tastes, and it just isn't your cup of tea. -shrug-
Princess Crystal: Falling Starchilddoll on January 23rd, 2009 08:15 pm (UTC)
I agree, not all books are literature. Some are just silly fun, and that's great. However, I don't think they are being marketed that way. They are being marketed as a serious book series for a target audience of young adult females. My main concern is that while obviously you are old enough and experienced enough to know when something is silly fun and when it's a serious work of art. The typical high school teen doesn't. They are filled with hormones and petty drama, so to them something like this is the real deal because it is targeting their superficial desires. It's like sugar for the soul. It's not good for you but it makes you wiggle and go "Mmmmm". My main concern is that I honestly don't feel that young people are exposed to enough genuinely decent cultural art experiences in their life these days. Between reality tv, the amount of crappy movies (most of which are remakes now because there's such a dearth of originality these days), the decline of performance arts (Broadway is a mess, young people rarely attend ballets, operas, or classic concerts), and books such as these all young people are receiving these days in terms of cultural arts are quick fixes of "drama" and toilet humor. This is what young people today are exposed to. And they are our future. It's depressing. As educated adults, you and I can both make mature choices and sure, we indulge in mindless entertainment and silly fun sometimes. And that's great - our personalities are already formed. We have enough experience and maturity behind us to make articulate judgments. But teenagers simply do not. They are still finding themselves, still forming their personalities, their ideals, their values. They are still malleable. They are impressionable. Unfortunately for them the impressions they are getting is poor writing quality, shows glorifying idiocracy, and music lacking any regard for the sanctity of self respect. And that’s what bothers me about books like this. Because teenagers think its good because they lack exposure to truly good works of art.
Lyn: Bad Wolf1ucifer on January 23rd, 2009 08:32 pm (UTC)
Honestly, since you haven't read the book, I don't think its fair to pass judgement on its contents. Reviews are one thing, but to read it is another. Its not the best written book, but it is very realistic in viewing through the eyes of a teenager. I read it going "whoa...yeah it really was like that". I think that's what is pulling the younger audience in. The fact they can relate to a degree. If I were 15, I'd likely read it an enjoy it the same (granted, I was heavy into Olson Scott Card when I was 15).

I would also point out that the series does push the concept of consequences, to a level that I've not seen even in most adult romance stories.

Thing is, even when I was a kid, and before that, the younger generation never was interested in more mature things. That's because they are kids, and the kids should play. That is their right. So what if they want to read a silly book, which in a round about way teaches abstinence and acceptance of differences? It may be sugary, but hey...they are reading (as opposed to getting into trouble).

This generation has Twilight, mine had Babysitters Club, before that was Nancy Drew. Its been like this for years, and no harm has come of it either.
Princess Crystalchilddoll on January 23rd, 2009 09:36 pm (UTC)
"Honestly, since you haven't read the book, I don't think its fair to pass judgement on its contents."

Fair enough. I am basing it off of excerpts I read, but excerpts may not be a completely fair assessment tool. However, I do think that the few excerpts I did read were poorly written. But that's all I can say. Now should if I can borrow and read a copy of the book from someone I am sure I can make more well founded arguments aganist it. Until then, you are correct and I will withdraw my argument on the books content, because, as you said, there is simply not enough 1st hand material for me to base my opionion on it.

Unfortunately, I cannot really comment on the themes present and how effectively they were presented for reasons stated above. But as far as the other issue...

Oh yes! Of course children should play! Personally I WAS interested in mature things. I never listened to the New Kids on the Block. I listened to Tchaikovsky. I didn't watch much tv. I read. I didn't read Goosebumps. I read Lloyd Alexander and Shakespeare. I didn't go go see teeny bopper concerts. I went to the ballet. Perhaps that just me, but I am personaly very grateful that I was raised with a strong childhood in the arts. Now playing and cultural education do not have to be mutually exclusive. They can be done together. You just have to know how to present it and make sure it's the right medium for your child. For example, I saw an opera of The Little Prince and their were tons of children there and they loved it. Would they have loved it were it La Boheme? Probably not. But they loved it because it was a children's tale. And it was done in an operatic form. It exposed the children to the cultural arts while still being fun for the children. Same with The Nutcracker. There are plenty of cultural arts shows, events and programs out there designed specifically to get children involved and having fun. My concern is that today's youth is SO saturated in very simple and mindless diversions, that when they do have to think for themselves, they can't because they're brains have grown so dull and when you do present them with a different activity that takes them away from their viedo games and reality tv, they don't want to because it's not an instant gratification. The reason video games, reality tv, and other dumbing down of the populus industries are so in vogue right now is because they scratch that instant gratification itch in our head. It's like choosing potato chips instead of broccoli or starring at a car accident instead of just moving along.

Yes, we did have the Babysitters Club, and the generation before us had Nancy Drew. But there is a HUGE difference between our generation and the one behind us. And it's probably the biggest generation gap in the history of mankind. And that is due to the advent of the internet and the speed of which modern day communication passes. We are constantly surround and saturated by the media. We didn't grow up with that. We grew up in a time before the internet. We weren't staurated with this idiocracy. We still had creativity and imagination. Children don't anymore. The media force feeds them with quick fix entertainment. Children don't go outside and play make-believe anymore. They stay in gorge on fatty foods while playing video games. Usually by themselves. There is less of an emphasis of interaction between humankind and a focus on the individual. We sit behind computer screens and tv screens. We no longer go out into the world and have meaningful interactions with our fellow man. This is what the generation behind us was raised under. A "ME" mentallity. An instant gratification impulse run amock for which they are deseperate to satiate. It is unhealthy for them as much as the world on a whole. THAT is why I have a problem with things like this.
Lyn: Good Bye1ucifer on January 24th, 2009 03:11 am (UTC)
-shrug- And I grew up playing Mortal Kombat with my father, and watching Jem with my mother, all the while reading Fear Street, Christopher Pike novels, and random books on dinosaurs. That doesn't make me worse nor better than someone who was brought up like yourself.

We can blame books, media, and so forth for shaping people. But its really not he content of any piece of entertainment, but the love and care of parents that shape kids.

Kids nowadays are different, sure. Mostly due to the internet, and parents not doing their job (that is, being parents). I wouldn't blame everyone else for that, especially a silly book series that is actually getting teenagers to *gasp* read.

And the funny thing, is with so much concern for the well being of those 15 year old minds, potentially ruined by this book series, has no one pointed out that the haters are more so corrupted by their enjoyment in disliking of something?

Edited at 2009-01-24 03:12 am (UTC)
地子chico_chan on January 24th, 2009 01:00 am (UTC)
This generation has Twilight, mine had Babysitters Club, before that was Nancy Drew. Its been like this for years, and no harm has come of it either.

As for that statement, I'm going to have to disagree with you there. My obvious dislike for the series aside completely, I actually DO believe it is harmful for young girls to read these books. Which is why I have such strong feeling against them more than just "Oh these aren't for me."

Girls in that age are very impressionable. With any other fad in the past, whether they be good reads or not, they are for the most part harmless. Nancey Drew like you brought up, was just a girl solving mysteries. No great literature, just a fun read. But Twilight encourages young girls to be completely unambitious with their lives. Take your female lead that gets angry whenever collage is mentioned to her, and has NO goals other than "be with Edward." Had I not seen it first hand I would never make a claim such as this. I've
Lyn: WTF?1ucifer on January 24th, 2009 01:37 am (UTC)
Eh...have you actually read ALL the books? Seriously? It is not harmful for someone to read these books.

Your arguement about Bella "getting angry whenever collage is mentioned" is a bit jaded, since you're not acknowledging "why" she would be upset. Her only goal wasn't to just 'be with Edward', but like any love, you will do anything for it.

Keep in mind, I grew up on Fear Street for the most part (I found the Babysitters Club to be too 'goody goody'). This did not ruin my viewpoint in the world, but simply was a facet of entertainment. Nothing more. Which is what this series is, just entertainment.
Rhiyabatlev on January 25th, 2009 12:39 am (UTC)
I think you've got in a nutshell why this series is silly and destructive for girls. The main character is nothing but a bag of teenage female insecurities with no redeeming values and the relationship between her and Edward is downright frightening. It's co-dependency at its worst and this is the model put forward to young girls, who have this to go 'sigh! how romantic' over. This is their expectation for romantic fantasy now? Really? At least the Babysitter's Club and Nancy Drew were... y'know, goal oriented girls. Bella has got nothing except 'I wanna be a vampire'.

You've got it right on the nose.
Miss Emily Carolineblueimber on January 23rd, 2009 08:01 pm (UTC)
i thought Twilight was in the Drama category, not Comedy? I didn't read them either; but i also thought that the author was closer to her 30s when she wrote them; based off a fantasy dream she had...?

but i do agree to each their own; when i was a teen and reading Shakespeare and Sci-fi/Fantasy, my sisters took much joy in like, the Babysitter's Club and Christopher Pike novellas. Having been a bookslave for about 6 years and most of them in the young adult and children's sections- anything that gets a kid to read is passable in my book, no matter how cheesy.
Princess Crystalchilddoll on January 23rd, 2009 08:28 pm (UTC)
Personally, I would not want my children reading such poorly written material. I have read excerpts of the book and some are quiet offensive to me, as a writer. But perhaps I should be less upset with the author and more upset with the editor and publishing house that agreed to publish such a poorly written piece of work. The writing is honestly not well refined at all, and from all accounts of the story the characters lack any sense of depth whatsoever.

John and I have already decided that should we have children, we will personally read each and every book any of our children wish to read before they do so we can deem it as appropriate or not. And personally, should I find a book too mindless or too poorly written, I would strongly urge my child to pick a different book to read. Now as a teenage girl, I wouldn't ban a book, but I would read it and then have very long discussions with her afterwards to see if she can actually have an intelligent conversation with me about the pros and cons of said book.

And there's another problem. Parents are not taking enough active involvement in their childrens personal lives. If parents would actually take an interest in the things their kids are watching or reading and having serious discussions about these entertainments, then we would have a more intelligent and eloquent youth population.
Miss Emily Carolineblueimber on January 23rd, 2009 09:30 pm (UTC)
Some parents i encountered were like that, and their children were often very well mannered and well read; they were always my favorite to help because they had ideas about what they liked to read and what kind of stories and so i could easily find new and wonderful things for them. I, like you, i want my children to read material that will make them think as well as allow them to explore the breadth of the imagination.

Unfortunately reality deems that most parents either don't have the time or the care to govern their children's consumption and rarely look much beyond the cover of a book to establish if their children can buy it. ((I like to think i singlehandedly saved many a child far too young from what in my opinion is even worse than a poorly written teenage diary vampire fantasy; that is, Gossip Girl. How they even get away with publishing that i don't even know. Give me 100 Twilight authors before you even let a single one of those Gossip Girl books near my child under 21))

Publishing companies seize upon whatever they can that they think will market and worst amoung them are the romance titles, the kinds of trashy publishers that pick up books like Twilight and Gossip Girl and think that they can make a mint off pre-pubescent and teenage girls who would be browsing for Fantasy books having grown up on the Harry Potter Craze ((To be honest, when i read the first HP book i thought it could have been written by a child)) I remember when Twilight hit the shelves, it was shiny and sat there for months untouched. When i heard that it had become this huge hit i had to shake my head and wonder why. Even further sadness is that for every book like this one, another one of higher merit never receives any of the praise it should and dozens of ones of lower merit come out as kind of 'copy-cat' or coattail-riders. It is a sad industry. They can pay a new inexperienced author less and less royalties on merchandise than they can with someone who has a little bit of grit under their feet from actually working in the industry.

I often encourage parents to try to develop a book club where one parent will read a novel and then disseminate to the other parents the information to help determine if the book is acceptable for their children. Or even to lead a book club for their child. If they are really too busy, i tell them which publishers to stick to, Scholastic rarely lets any one down and Newberry honorees and winners are always always great stories. I pray that the booksellers of the next generation are able to do as like....

Edited at 2009-01-23 09:55 pm (UTC)
Princess Crystal: Sleeping Beautychilddoll on January 23rd, 2009 10:21 pm (UTC)
A book club is a fantastic idea for parents!
Jayschnuder on January 23rd, 2009 07:23 pm (UTC)
I agree. Vampires should not sparkle.
Princess Crystal: Eilonwy ummmchilddoll on January 23rd, 2009 07:33 pm (UTC)
Yeeeaaaaah. I heard about that and was like "Wait...seriously...? they..sparkle...?" ROFL!!!
Chrysilla: french vampqotcpcf on January 23rd, 2009 08:11 pm (UTC)
But... Vampires *do* sparkle! They're called Torreador, and young Malkavians.

I've played several sparkly vampires in my time...

Princess Crystal: Swanchilddoll on January 23rd, 2009 08:31 pm (UTC)
Brat :P

Well... and then again... the vampires in "Lost Boys" have sparkly blood...

but seriously vampires should only be sparkly after feeding from a bunch of Sidhe!
Rhiyabatlev on January 25th, 2009 12:37 am (UTC)
They're Hot Topic vampires. They indulge in a lot of body glitter :)
Alice in Wonderland3libras on January 23rd, 2009 07:25 pm (UTC)
I agree so hard. I mean, if people like it, good for them, but I really can't bring myself to take this series seriously.
Princess Crystal: Alice childdollchilddoll on January 23rd, 2009 07:33 pm (UTC)
Same here.
Jessica Ramseydosed_by_you_ on January 24th, 2009 12:16 am (UTC)
I've read the series, and now I really wish I would have stopped after the first one. Its not too bad, but the seres just goes down hill from there. Myers writing could totally be compared to a young girls(she uses a lot of big words out of context...ALL the time!), but I think shes actually in her thirties.XD
Saffysilentangel17 on January 24th, 2009 05:19 am (UTC)
The series kept me entertained and awake through long late night hours of breastfeeding my daughter. It was certainly....er....accurate? to how many teen girls act. Thing is, it didn't end realistically to me. Those "OMG I LOVE YOU SO MUCH I'LL DO ANYTHING FOR YOU WE'LL BE TOGETHER EVEN THOUGH WE'RE STILL CHILDREN IN HIGHSCHOOL THAT DON'T KNOW WHAT WE WANT" things rarely end well. The fourth book was definitely the worst imo. While I wouldn't prevent my daughter from reading the series should she so desire, I would talk with her about it as she read it, and after she finished it, and would make sure she understood how unrealistic the ending outcome is. Other than that, it's not a horrible story if you're looking for entertainment you don't have to think about or really remember facts about. Which is great at 3am!
Rhiyabatlev on January 25th, 2009 12:35 am (UTC)
Ahhh Crystal, you have stepped into the waters of Twilight Scorn. Welcome, the water's fine. But watch out, the fangirls/boys bite!

Speaking as someone who bit the bullet to read it -before- casting scorn (not saying you should, you're safer not dipping your brain in the drivel), I'm still amazed at the vehemence people choose to defend the series with. There are those who will defend it based on any sort of basis they can come up with. Me, I'm comfortable with my scorn and laughter at the series on many levels. It really is the most ridiculous book series I ever read and I feel that, like Emily mentioned on this thread, it is indicative of a trend of book series like Gossip Girls and all the rest of those 'relationship' fiction for teenage girls which is... essentially, trash. These books don't teach anything, aren't well-written, and instead emulate incredibly... frightening views of what girls should be looking for or expecting to be considered 'romantic' and such. That's if people take it seriously and looking at the fandom... they do, oh they do.

People's taste can be what it is, really, but it is perfectly fine to laugh at the Sparkleypoof vampire brigade, hun :) Personally, I have tons of reasons why I laugh my butt off about it. And I can't complain that I never got anything out of it - reading the book has made me intensely aware of the better writer I want to be. But meanwhile, laugh all you want. The whole thing is a funny, funny mess of overly emotional drivel and the reviews online make it even better! Scorn is a good defense against the rabid fandom too. It keeps the Sparkleypoof's away.
Princess Crystal: Mischevious Claudiachilddoll on January 26th, 2009 05:29 pm (UTC)
Yeah, from alot of what I heard it seems to send a horrible message to young girls. From the excerpts and reviews alone, I already want to shoot the main character. She seems bland, obnoxious, completely immature, and without many redemable values. But I guess that's many teenage girls these days, isn't it.
Oh yes! That's why I stopped going to anime cons, I remember now.

Mara: nograyhour on January 27th, 2009 07:56 pm (UTC)
I could say as much as anyone else has, but let's just say that I completely agree with you on Twilight.

The sad part is... it wasn't written by a fifteen year old girl.

It was written by a thirty four year old woman. THAT is the real horror here.
Princess Crystal: Angel Cryingchilddoll on January 27th, 2009 08:49 pm (UTC)
Wow... sad indeed
Morbid Aristocracy: Bloody Hellmarpesia_m on February 5th, 2009 11:57 pm (UTC)
I cried reading the first book. It was traumatizing, just like having to hear Anne Rice proclaim her eternal declaration to all things holy. Gave me a twitch.

Princess Crystal: Mischevious Claudiachilddoll on February 6th, 2009 02:50 pm (UTC)
Yeah...sorry vampires don't sparkle.
And as for the Anne Rice thing. Yeah, I didn't see that coming. That was totally weird. Ah well... I kinda got over her a while back anyway. I just couldn't make it through the entire Vampire Chronicles. I kinda glazed over Queen of the Damned and I got to the very opening of Memnoch the Devil and didn't get past the first chapter. Just kinda lost my interest in the series.